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MuhammedGoldstein
BANNED
201 Posts |
 Posted - 06/10/2008 : 14:36:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
MG said:
from the stat I have said that it is the genetics which allows the creature to be a white bird that can turn pink.
So the bird turning pink when fed pigment is genetically caused.
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Thats what you were saying? Really? Because it seems as if you were saying something entirely different.
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that's cause you're an idiot, to. |
It does mention phenotype, just without using the word "phenotype."... DAVEW |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2008 : 15:00:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by MuhammedGoldstein
from the start I have said that it is the genetics which allows the creature to be a white bird that can turn pink.
So the bird turning pink when fed pigment is genetically caused. |
Then why did you say (and I quote), "...phenotype can be about something which has no relation to the genotype of the flamingo," and then why did you disagree (direct quote: "No, not so.") with me when I tried to correct you?| why could it not be said that it is the bird's genetic encoding, which, when acted upon by environment, produce a white bird that can turn pink ? |
That is what "phenotype" means, so I have no idea "why could it not be said." |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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MuhammedGoldstein
BANNED
201 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2008 : 15:16:57 [Permalink]
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from the start I have said that it is the genetics which allows the creature to be a white bird that can turn pink.
So the bird turning pink when fed pigment is genetically caused. |
| Then why did you say (and I quote), "...phenotype can be about something which has no relation to the genotype of the flamingo," |
because it doesn't, necessarily.
and then why did you disagree (direct quote: "No, not so.") with me when I tried to correct you? |
here I draw your attention to the fact that you ask me a question about my disagreeing, but what you followed with was not what I disagreed with. I'm as blind today as yesterday, but I don't see my words in context of our disagreement. If you cared to print in context, showing what I disagreed with, it would be less ambiguous or confusing for others who aren't reading every post. thanks. We can handle the next question when we finish the first.
why could it not be said that it is the bird's genetic encoding, which, when acted upon by environment, produce a white bird that can turn pink ?[quote]That is what "phenotype" means, so I have no idea "why could it not be said."
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exactly. my whole sentence from " the birds genetic encoding" onwards, "means" phenotype. to you. |
It does mention phenotype, just without using the word "phenotype."... DAVEW |
| Edited by - MuhammedGoldstein on 06/10/2008 15:24:54 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2008 : 15:27:18 [Permalink]
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Dave_W said:
| Then why did you say (and I quote), "...phenotype can be about something which has no relation to the genotype of the flamingo," |
Then MG said:
because it doesn't, necessarily.
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You are entirely incoherent. Maybe you should get some help with English translations.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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MuhammedGoldstein
BANNED
201 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2008 : 15:28:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by MuhammedGoldstein
from the start I have said that it is the genetics which allows the creature to be a white bird that can turn pink.
So the bird turning pink when fed pigment is genetically caused. |
| Then why did you say (and I quote), "...phenotype can be about something which has no relation to the genotype of the flamingo," |
because it doesn't, necessarily HAVE to - but does, sometimes. I edited it later to add a bit more explanation.
and then why did you disagree (direct quote: "No, not so.") with me when I tried to correct you? |
here I draw your attention to the fact that you ask me a question about my disagreeing, but what you followed with was not what I disagreed with. I'm as blind today as yesterday, but I don't see my words in context of our disagreement. If you cared to print in context, showing what I disagreed with, it would be less ambiguous or confusing for others who aren't reading every post. thanks. We can handle the next question when we finish the first.
why could it not be said that it is the bird's genetic encoding, which, when acted upon by environment, produce a white bird that can turn pink ?[quote]That is what "phenotype" means, so I have no idea "why could it not be said."
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exactly. my whole sentence from " the birds genetic encoding" onwards, "means" phenotype. to you.
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It does mention phenotype, just without using the word "phenotype."... DAVEW |
| Edited by - MuhammedGoldstein on 06/11/2008 01:30:33 |
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MuhammedGoldstein
BANNED
201 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2008 : 15:52:19 [Permalink]
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to some, "Jesus Christ" "means" "Jesus of Nazareth, Lord Saviour, who died on the cross for my sins".
Others think it "means" "Jesus of Nazareth, an anointed person".
Maybe nobody here even cares to address me by name. But it's Muhammed.
How are you guys doing today ?
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It does mention phenotype, just without using the word "phenotype."... DAVEW |
| Edited by - MuhammedGoldstein on 06/10/2008 16:01:26 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2008 : 16:49:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by MuhammedGoldstein
Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by MuhammedGoldstein
...I believe Berkeley and others see the sentence "Pink is not encoded for" as saying that pink has a 100% correlation with pigment feed. There is no room left in 100 for anything but "pigment feed", meaning that phenotype can be about something which has no relation to the genotype of the flamingo. |
If it were 100% the food, then any animal fed a diet high in beta carotene would turn pink. |
No, not so. In flamingos it is so. |
Right-- BECAUSE of their genotype!!! Remember that point I made earlier about other white birds? The website (linked from your Berkeley site) noted, quite clearly:| Simply feeding white birds, such as egrets, white ibis, and swans, with a carotenoid-rich diet will not turn their plumage reddish, as these birds lack the genes to produce the pigment cells in their feathers. |
See? It's not just diet. It's diet PLUS genes!!!!!
Now TELL me you understand this!! |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2008 : 17:15:36 [Permalink]
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As a sidelight:
All is quickly solved with reference to Professor François Boieldieu who has researched these questions thoroughly in his book: "M. Boieldieu sait tout sur Phenotypes et leur Application, avec décapage des conseils et des nouilles genetique".
Of "genetic encoding" relating to "physical alterations", Boieldieu wrote in 1948:
Bend et sur le point directement avec le doigt à ses fesses.
Later, in Chapter 4, Boieldieu instinctively implied:
Pour plus de se baisser et dans les fesses.
This then led to Boieldieu's greatest insight:
Regarder. Voir les fesses que l'on regarde et pointe directement vers elle.
And Boieldieu summed it all up with:
Où que nous allions, les fesses.
Q.E.D. (Applause)
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MuhammedGoldstein
BANNED
201 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2008 : 17:16:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Originally posted by MuhammedGoldstein
Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by MuhammedGoldstein
...I believe Berkeley and others see the sentence "Pink is not encoded for" as saying that pink has a 100% correlation with pigment feed. There is no room left in 100 for anything but "pigment feed", meaning that phenotype can be about something which has no relation to the genotype of the flamingo. |
If it were 100% the food, then any animal fed a diet high in beta carotene would turn pink. |
No, not so. In flamingos it is so. |
Right-- BECAUSE of their genotype!!! Remember that point I made earlier about other white birds? The website (linked from your Berkeley site) noted, quite clearly:| Simply feeding white birds, such as egrets, white ibis, and swans, with a carotenoid-rich diet will not turn their plumage reddish, as these birds lack the genes to produce the pigment cells in their feathers. |
See? It's not just diet. It's diet PLUS genes!!!!!
Now TELL me you understand this!!
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I understand exactly what you are trying to say..but listen here, Cune,
look at your sentence. You say . Your sentence says What "it" ?
do you not agree with my words ?
Is there something wrong with them ?
Do they not describe what is ?
You need me to agree to a loose sentence? I provided one. Is it loose ? What's wrong with it?
Dave sees it as OK I think. As long as it "means" "phenotype". I do wonder if he thinks my sentence is OK without also thinking "means phenotype"
Is my sentence an OK description of what "is", shall we say ?
| why could it not be said that it is the bird's genetic encoding, which, when acted upon by environment, produce(s)* a white bird that can turn pink ? |
*Added an optional "s" to "produce"
When you said "Right!", were you agreeing with my "No, not so"...or were you agreeing with my "In Flamingos it is so "? Or both ??
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It does mention phenotype, just without using the word "phenotype."... DAVEW |
| Edited by - MuhammedGoldstein on 06/10/2008 17:46:21 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2008 : 17:31:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by MuhammedGoldstein
I understand exactly what you are trying to say..but listen here, Cune,
look at your sentence. You say . Your sentence says What "it" ? |
Uh, the meaning of "phenotype"?
do you not agree with my words ?
Is there something wrong with them ?
Do they not describe what is ? |
No, they don't. You seem to be confused because you're going back and forth on this.
| You need me to agree to a loose sentence? I provided one. Is it loose ? What's wrong with it? |
This doesn't make sense in English.
Is my sentence an OK description of what "is", shall we say ?
| why could it not be said that it is the bird's genetic encoding, which, when acted upon by environment, produce a white bird that can turn pink ? |
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This is slightly incorrect; the environment doesn't produce a white bird that can turn pink. The genetic encoding does.
So this isn't like the video you showed, where, for instance, feeding mice a certain thing can "turn on" or "turn off" a particular genetic tag and make it fat or thin. |
| Edited by - Cuneiformist on 06/10/2008 17:32:05 |
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MuhammedGoldstein
BANNED
201 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2008 : 17:47:12 [Permalink]
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When you said "Right!", were you agreeing with my "No, not so"...or were you agreeing with my "In Flamingos it is so "? Or both ??
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It does mention phenotype, just without using the word "phenotype."... DAVEW |
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MuhammedGoldstein
BANNED
201 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2008 : 17:51:22 [Permalink]
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| This is slightly incorrect; the environment doesn't produce a white bird that can turn pink. The genetic encoding does |
does my sentence read to you that I said environment produces, or genetics produces ?
I tried to make it so that "genetics...produces " is the meaning. I tried to use correct clauses, punctuation, and everything, to show the meaning. |
It does mention phenotype, just without using the word "phenotype."... DAVEW |
| Edited by - MuhammedGoldstein on 06/10/2008 17:53:03 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2008 : 17:58:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by MuhammedGoldstein
| This is slightly incorrect; the environment doesn't produce a white bird that can turn pink. The genetic encoding does |
does my sentence read to you that I said environment produces, or genetics produces ?
I tried to make it so that "genetics...produces " is the meaning. I tried to use correct clauses, punctuation, and everything, to show the meaning.
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It's a little ambiguous:| why could it not be said that it is the bird's genetic encoding, which, when acted upon by environment, produce a white bird that can turn pink ? |
This sounds like you have a bird and the bird has a genetic encoding, and when the environment acts on the genetic encoding, it then creates a white bird that can, in the future, turn pink.
This might be better:| why could it not be said that it is the white bird's genetic encoding, which, when acted upon by environment, produced a pink bird ? |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2008 : 18:00:24 [Permalink]
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MuhammedGoldstein: is it your contention that everything measurable about a creature should be considered to be part of its phenotype because everything measurable might be part of its phenotype?Originally posted by MuhammedGoldstein
| Then why did you say (and I quote), "...phenotype can be about something which has no relation to the genotype of the flamingo," |
because it doesn't, necessarily, HAVE to - but does, sometimes. I edited it later to add a bit more explanation. |
"It?" I can't agree with sloppy sentences. I'd be surprised if the first "it" referred to the same thing as the second "it," though.| If you cared to print in context, showing what I disagreed with, it would be less ambiguous or confusing for others who aren't reading every post. |
Distraction via concern for others, now?| exactly. my whole sentence from " the birds genetic encoding" onwards, "means" phenotype. to you. |
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts. The definition of "phenotype" is not a matter of opinion.
You also wrote:| Maybe nobody here even cares to address me by name. But it's Muhammed. |
It's a little late to be getting neurotic, ain't it? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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If I get a haircut
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