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 Codex Sinaiticus (the oldest Bible) is now online
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26004 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2009 :  08:03:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Ricky

Weird. There are several sites on that server, but codexsinaiticus.co.uk/en/ is the only one actually working. I would imagine if the site got an overload from visitors, the entire server would go down. No?
That one's not working for me, either. So far as I can tell, it's entirely down.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2009 :  08:49:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just tried it now... still working for me.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9675 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2009 :  10:13:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Works for me...

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26004 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2009 :  11:30:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's working now, but even slower than last night.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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lorddix
New Member

USA
22 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2009 :  12:18:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send lorddix a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe too many skeptics are trying to visit the site at the same time
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26004 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2009 :  12:26:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The English version is obviously running on a German server:
Serverfehler in der Anwendung /.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Der Objektverweis wurde nicht auf eine Objektinstanz festgelegt.
Beschreibung: Unbehandelte Ausnahme beim Ausführen der aktuellen Webanforderung. Überprüfen Sie die Stapelüberwachung, um weitere Informationen über diesen Fehler anzuzeigen und festzustellen, wo der Fehler im Code verursacht wurde.

Ausnahmedetails: System.NullReferenceException: Der Objektverweis wurde nicht auf eine Objektinstanz festgelegt.
And so on.

Edited to add that refreshing the page after a couple of minutes fixed the problem.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Baxter
Skeptic Friend

USA
131 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2009 :  10:50:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Baxter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner

It's an example of how the Bible kept being revised and "improved" by its human scribes.
But do scholars not piece together the different copies to give us the current bible? Is this codex just one of those copies?


"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me." ~from Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey

"We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know." ~Robert G. Ingersoll
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2009 :  12:11:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Which current Bible? There are at least ten of them last I checked.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26004 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2009 :  12:57:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
BibleGateway has 20 different English versions online.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Baxter
Skeptic Friend

USA
131 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2009 :  13:36:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Baxter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, there are many translations. But they use certain Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek manuscripts, such as Novum Testamentum Graece, Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia, Septuagint, Masoretic Hebrew Text, Dead Sea Scrolls, etc.

From what I understand, we can look at these texts to get a good idea of what was in the original autographs.


"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me." ~from Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey

"We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know." ~Robert G. Ingersoll
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2009 :  14:34:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Baxter

Yeah, there are many translations. But they use certain Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek manuscripts, such as Novum Testamentum Graece, Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia, Septuagint, Masoretic Hebrew Text, Dead Sea Scrolls, etc.

From what I understand, we can look at these texts to get a good idea of what was in the original autographs.





Not really.
The versions we have are copies of copies of copies (of copies).

The earliest manuscript we can find were written in the 4th our 5th century, several centuries after the estimated date of the initial writing of the original gospels.
Even then, there are many differences between the text, attesting of the many modification that the text had already gone through, Bart D. Ehrman likes to say that there are more differences between this various manuscripts than there are words in the Bible itself.


Even more interesting is the fact that the earliest versions of the gospel of Mark appear incomplete. The ending we now have was added later.

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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The Rat
SFN Regular

Canada
1342 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2009 :  18:25:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit The Rat's Homepage Send The Rat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner
It's an example of how the Bible kept being revised and "improved" by its human scribes.


Say it ain't so!

Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.

You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II

Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590
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Baxter
Skeptic Friend

USA
131 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2009 :  19:23:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Baxter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Simon

Not really.
The versions we have are copies of copies of copies (of copies).

...
Thanks, that's intriguing. I'm gonna go do some more digging...

"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me." ~from Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey

"We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know." ~Robert G. Ingersoll
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2009 :  20:02:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by The Rat

Originally posted by HalfMooner
It's an example of how the Bible kept being revised and "improved" by its human scribes.


Say it ain't so!
Ain't I good at stating the obvious? It's one of my main virtues.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2009 :  08:56:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Baxter

Originally posted by Simon

Not really.
The versions we have are copies of copies of copies (of copies).

...
Thanks, that's intriguing. I'm gonna go do some more digging...



That's actually fairly common for such old documents.
But then, only a few of them are supposed to be the unaltered and perfect word of God.

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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