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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
 Posted - 08/27/2010 : 06:05:40
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A common site around these parts (mostly rural areas) is young men displaying the Confederate flag http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_flag#The_Confederate_Flag on their vehicles and clothing.
I have a hard time figuring out what exactly it is they are trying to say by flying this flag. Do they realize that they live in the north and that the Confederacy (South) lost the Civil War? Are they trying to symbolize racism? If they are trying to symbolize racism then who exactly are they directing their racism at? The African American population of my city is only about 1% and is far less once you get outside the metro area. Could it be that they are flying the flag as a reminder of their heritage? I do know that some people from the rural areas are descended from Appalachian people who came here to work in the logging industry in the late 19th -early 20th century. Are they educated enough to even know the history of the Conferderate flag?
I would ask one these young men myself but that could be dangerous to my health because (I know I'm stereotyping) these are the same young men who have no problem starting fights with outsiders.
Thoughts?
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Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
 Posted - 08/27/2010 : 06:15:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ricky
I've always figured the confederate flag (to them) stood for southern values. Hunting, chewing tobacco, country music, owning a truck, etc.
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All qualities that these young men share. But what I would really like to do is go up to them and say " You do realize the Confederacy LOST the war right?" but I don't want my ass kicked and they probably are unfamiliar with the Civil War anyway. |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2010 : 06:25:58 [Permalink]
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| You forgot "owning slaves," Ricky. No matter how apologists for the Confederacy try to frame the Civil War as a states' rights matter, the fact is that they were arguing for their right to own slaves, while the industrialized North had largely repudiated the practice as unnecessary and inhumane. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2010 : 06:31:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
But I guess, Ricky, you're arguing that they're just ignorant of the slavery stuff?
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Actually I think that they most likely use it to symbolize racism which is odd to me because the African-American population around here is so small that it is nearly insignificant. I could be wrong though. |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2010 : 06:33:32 [Permalink]
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| From The Onion |
"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2010 : 06:52:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
A common site around these parts (mostly rural areas) is young men displaying the Confederate flag http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_flag#The_Confederate_Flag on their vehicles and clothing.
I have a hard time figuring out what exactly it is they are trying to say by flying this flag. Do they realize that they live in the north and that the Confederacy (South) lost the Civil War? Are they trying to symbolize racism? If they are trying to symbolize racism then who exactly are they directing their racism at? The African American population of my city is only about 1% and is far less once you get outside the metro area. Could it be that they are flying the flag as a reminder of their heritage? I do know that some people from the rural areas are descended from Appalachian people who came here to work in the logging industry in the late 19th -early 20th century. Are they educated enough to even know the history of the Confederate flag?
I would ask one these young men myself but that could be dangerous to my health because (I know I'm stereotyping) these are the same young men who have no problem starting fights with outsiders.
Thoughts?
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The Confederate flag, also know as the confederate battle standard, is the symbol of an unlawful rebellion against the government of the USA. That lost.
I have never met a person who owns or displays it to think about it in those terms though, mostly they think of it as something about personal and historical heritage. The people I personally know who display it (as a flag, on a truck, t-shirt, tatoo, etc) have some racist sentiments (I know because most of the ones I know are related to me,  ).
None of them ever consider the negative historical values associated with the confederate flag. I know they are aware of it's history and what the confederacy was fighting to preserve (stronger state's rights, including the right to own people). So it is a form of cognitive dissonance that lets them fly that flag.
Ebone, ask them if they consider themselves patriots, and if they are the type who would defend this country. They will probably answer yes, but very few will actually be veterans. Then ask them how they reconcile displaying the confederate flag with being a patriotic US citizen. They will get a confused look on their face then tell you to fuck off! Cognitive dissonance at work.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2010 : 07:02:06 [Permalink]
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Ebone, ask them if they consider themselves patriots, and if they are the type who would defend this country. They will probably answer yes, but very few will actually be veterans. Then ask them how they reconcile displaying the confederate flag with being a patriotic US citizen. They will get a confused look on their face then tell you to fuck off! Cognitive dissonance at work.
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Doing that would most likely get me beaten and tied to a tree for use as bear bait. |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2010 : 07:05:02 [Permalink]
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The Bonny Blue Flag, a personal favorite due to it's history.
Image from here.
Used to be, these things were worn as a sort of "spit in yer eye" sort of thing, rather than any sort of fealty to the Confederacy. Little has changed, really.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2010 : 07:05:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
Actually I think that they most likely use it to symbolize racism... |
That is "the slavery stuff."| ...which is odd to me because the African-American population around here is so small that it is nearly insignificant. |
It's been my experience that the lack of "others" within a population makes it easier to "other" outsiders. My visits to Canada and Salt Lake City (both with a much smaller mix of non-white people than the D.C. suburbs) included hearing a lot more unapologetic racist comments than I was used to. I'm pretty sure that sort of thing is due to the fact that those living in such places simply don't generally need to filter themselves for fear of offending the targets of their racism. There's no need to be tolerant of brown people if there aren't any brown people around. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2010 : 07:13:01 [Permalink]
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originally posted by Dave
I'm pretty sure that sort of thing is due to the fact that those living in such places simply don't generally need to filter themselves for fear of offending the targets of their racism. There's no need to be tolerant of brown people if there aren't any brown people around. |
Gotcha. So then I have to wonder why the hell would they be racist against people that they have had little conact with or little reason to hate. |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2010 : 07:25:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
Gotcha. So then I have to wonder why the hell would they be racist against people that they have had little conact with or little reason to hate. |
There's a long history (hundreds of years) of white folks publicly demonizing other races, especially those of African descent, and it's easier to believe the lies when you don't actually encounter the targets of the lies. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2010 : 09:08:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
But I guess, Ricky, you're arguing that they're just ignorant of the slavery stuff?
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I know that this is directed at Ricky, but I'm not sure about that. I think they may very well realize that slavery was the issue in the civil war, but they may not associate the flag with slavery. And even if they think the flag had a meaning in relation to slavery in the past, they may not agree that it still has this connotation today. Symbols do change meaning over time, for good or for bad.
(Although it probably is harder for them to change from good to bad then from bad to good. As far as I can tell it was fairly easy for the Nazi-party to adopt the Swastika for their purposes. It hasn't lost it's negative meaning yet and probably will take a long time before it does so, if ever.) |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Cultural observation
