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Convinced
Skeptic Friend

USA
384 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2012 :  12:21:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Convinced a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner

Speaking for myself, certainly.

Denying an education is illegal in other contexts, so why should religion be given a pass? Let's see what exposing what's going on will do, first (a little, I expect, but not enough).

Church schools should be regulated for safety (many are exempted from all regulation or oversight), basic minimum curriculum, and teacher qualifications, as should home schooling. Also, taxing church properties and incomes would do a great deal to protect kids, by taking away some of the profit motive from the whole business of lying to kids.
So you think you get to decide what children are taught instead of their parents. Sounds intolerent to me.

If you taxed churches wouldn't you have to tax all non profit organizations?

Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Eph 5:15-17)
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13470 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2012 :  13:07:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Convinced
So you think you get to decide what children are taught instead of their parents. Sounds intolerent to me.

If you taxed churches wouldn't you have to tax all non profit organizations?


A couple of grey areas.

For home schooling, religious schooling and public schooling, I think there should be at the very least some universal standards or the schooling becomes a joke. Having a good science education should be considered just as important as math and history and other subjects. Now I'll concede that in home schooling, the parent should have the right to discuss with the kids, what they feel is not consistant with what they believe from a religious standpoint. (They have that right already.) But those kids better be able to pass a state science exam that tests for basic principals and the reasons for a scientific consensus on those subjects the parents don't agree with. At home, it's okay to teach the other view, but not to the exclusion of the widely accepted view. Or to put this another way, it's not okay to make your kids scientific illiterates.

While they don't have to believe accepted science, which would be a shame, I think they need to learn it in order to be informed. Or the schooling is a joke.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Convinced
Skeptic Friend

USA
384 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2012 :  13:30:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Convinced a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

A couple of grey areas.

For home schooling, religious schooling and public schooling, I think there should be at the very least some universal standards or the schooling becomes a joke. Having a good science education should be considered just as important as math and history and other subjects. Now I'll concede that in home schooling, the parent should have the right to discuss with the kids, what they feel is not consistant with what they believe from a religious standpoint. (They have that right already.) But those kids better be able to pass a state science exam that tests for basic principals and the reasons for a scientific consensus on those subjects the parents don't agree with. At home, it's okay to teach the other view, but not to the exclusion of the widely accepted view. Or to put this another way, it's not okay to make your kids scientific illiterates.

While they don't have to believe accepted science, which would be a shame, I think they need to learn it in order to be informed. Or the schooling is a joke.
This is my view as well.

Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Eph 5:15-17)
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2012 :  22:23:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Convinced

This is my view as well.
And mine. Kil doubtless said it better than I did, though. What I think is "abuse" is teaching kids lies about the world, and not even teaching the accepted scientific or historic views. Or giving the kids an idiotic strawman version of real knowledge -- as in these "textbooks" -- to make their "Biblical" version sound better by comparison in false dichotomy logic.

(The "electricity is a mystery" stuff just baffles me. It's totally false knowledge, but it doesn't even help a Creationist viewpoint. Maybe it's just a freebee by the author to warn of her profound ignorance?)

And of course, it's not me or some gang of atheists that sets the standards, but educational professionals. In the case of the pros who "inspect" home schooling, their most important job would be to help give guidance to parents who sincerely want to educate their kids.

I don't advocate having the state prohibit religious education, either at home or in private schools. I do wonder if "home schooling," religious or secular, when it's a substitute to schooling by pros, might be better abolished entirely (with exceptions for those in very remote locations, etc.).

The bottom line is that giving kids the proper educational tools to succeed at more than just unskilled and semiskilled labor needs to be a goal of all kinds of education. Profound ignorance is a danger to a democracy. A democracy has a right and duty to make certain its young citizens are informed, capable, and ready to take over. These textbooks in effect try to deny them that capability.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 05/23/2012 22:55:45
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