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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
 Posted - 12/18/2012 : 08:52:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
And you left off the portion where the victim knew their attacker. The data was split between stranger and known. You have to add them together. |
How many of the school kids knew Adam Lanza? We can weight the numbers based on the proper proportions.| You are talking about banning firearm ownership. |
The fuck I am. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2012 : 10:50:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
| You are talking about banning firearm ownership. |
The fuck I am.
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I am reminded of this Facebook graphic.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 12/18/2012 10:51:56 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2012 : 11:32:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
In 2009, there were 10.8 million motor vehicle accidents. With 209 million licensed drivers that same year, clearly the hoops one needs to jump through to own and operate a car in the U.S. are simply punishing the vast majority of drivers who don't cause accidents.  We "punish" them by forcing them to show a bare minimum of competence, that their equipment is functional, that they've got insurance, and by forcing them, when they buy new cars, to get ones with most of the latest safety features. Do you think the per-driver accident rate would go up or down if we did none of these things, and merely did a background check and a waiting period for buying cars? |
Great, then you are for "punishing" all legal drivers by confiscating their cars. Especially those big, scary SUVs. After all, it's for the children. |
Let me try this a different way: we are already "punishing" car ownership in the ways I'm talking about "punishing" gun ownership, and there are 209 million licensed drivers and 240+ million cars on the roads. Some punishment. again. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2012 : 20:40:24 [Permalink]
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What hasn't be discussed by others here is the fact that these tragedies are being carried out by those with mental issues that are not being treated. The only way parents without insurance can get "help" for their child or a family member exhibiting instability is to file a criminal complaint with the police. I have heard media interview parents who said that authorities flat out told them that there is nothing that can be done until a crime has been committed or if the parents were willing file a criminal complaint. Locking up sick people as criminals is NOT treatment and is the worst thing to do, so they are usually very resistant to go there,,,, until someone snaps, then it's to late. That's just wrong. It's been going on for sometime and getting worse. Besides Federal cuts, in just recent years even States have been cutting funding for mental health care too. This issue has been getting some mention in the media but not really enough for what I feel is sufficient to it's importance and being a major factor in these mass shootings, in my mind. For me, this is the flashing neon elephant in the room.
Between 2009 and 2011, states cumulatively cut more than $1.8 billion from their budgets for mental health services, according to a report released in 2011 by the National Alliance on Mental Illness. At least two-thirds of states significantly slashed spending for services for children and adults living with mental illness.
Link |
Cutting more than $1.8 billion is a lot of heath care just from the states funding. Perhaps Obama care, when it kicks in, will allow parents and families dealing with a loved one exhibiting mental illness will be able to have a place to go for help. |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2012 : 04:35:06 [Permalink]
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Barring some seismic realignment in this country, the
gun control debate is all but settled — and your side
won. The occasional horrific civilian massacre is just
the price the rest of us have to pay.
Over and over again, apparently. |
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2012 : 05:34:53 [Permalink]
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Oh, holy crap:SALT LAKE CITY (AP) - A Utah sixth-grader caught with a gun at school told administrators he brought the weapon to defend himself in case of an attack similar to last week's mass shooting at a Connecticut school, officials said Tuesday.
The 11-year-old was being held in juvenile detention on suspicion of possessing a dangerous weapon and aggravated assault after other students at the suburban Salt Lake City elementary school told police he threatened them with the handgun.
Teachers and administrators at West Kearns Elementary School confronted the boy in class Monday after students reported the weapon, said Granite School District spokesman Ben Horsley. The boy had an unloaded gun and ammunition in his backpack, Horsley said.
The boy waved the gun at others during a morning recess, school officials said... Do I think that some people shouldn't be allowed to own guns? Yes. Like the adults in that kid's family who allowed him unsupervised access to the weapon. Their negligence should cost them, and a suitable penalty would be for them to lose their access to firearms for some period of time, just like negligent drivers can have their licenses suspended.
But the 11-year-old is the only person facing charges, so far. That's ass flippin' backwards. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2012 : 08:59:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
But the 11-year-old is the only person facing charges, so far. That's ass flippin' backwards.
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Could be that I missed it, but do we really know how secured the Lanza guns were? Did Adam really have to break into a gun safe and remove trigger locks? |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2012 : 09:34:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by moakley
Could be that I missed it, but do we really know how secured the Lanza guns were? Did Adam really have to break into a gun safe and remove trigger locks? |
I just went hunting around, and was unable to find anything resembling details of what Lanza did before entering the school. The only place I've seen a gun safe mentioned was in Val's earlier comment. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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lorddix
New Member
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2012 : 09:38:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by The Rat
I've heard some saying that we only need to ban automatic weapons, semis are okay. Want to bet? A popular semi-automatic assault rifle is the FN FAL, which I carried for ten years. In just a few minutes I can disassemble it, and by inserting a paper matchstick or even just a folded piece of paper, into the right place, turn it full auto. There are probably other weapons with similar arrangements.
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Depending on when you had the FN-FAL you may have been in violation of the law. By BATFE regulation if a rifle is that easy to convert into fully automatic firing it is classified as fully automatic and subject to all existing NFA rules. If manufactured prior to 1986 it would be legal to won as long as the proper Transfer Tax was paid and the registration was in order. If manufactured after 1986 civilian ownership is prohibited. In following that procedure was the gun really full automatic firing only when the trigger is pulled or would it induce a slamfire condition beginning firing when the trigger was pulled and only ending when it was out of ammo,it jammed or the inserted item came loose. Some older civilian versions (semi-automatic) of the AK-47 can be forced into a slam fire position by opening the receiver and tying off a part of the receiver mechanism with a zip tie. These makeshift modifications are extremely dangerous and can cuase serious damage to the firearm and/or the user. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2012 : 09:49:41 [Permalink]
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| I don't know why it is, but it happens often. Mention gun safety and reasonable measures (regulations) for gun ownership, and the NRA and 2nd amendment hardliners yell, "you want to take away our guns!" The NRA thrives on the slippery slope fallacy. They hear the phrase "gun control" and that can only mean one thing to them. Not what is being proposed, but where, in their imaginations, it will lead. Suggest that a 30 round clip in a semi automatic weapon should be banned and they hear "they want all my guns!" It's rather frustrating when it comes from someone who is usually a fine critical thinker. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2012 : 10:38:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
In 2009, there were 10.8 million motor vehicle accidents. With 209 million licensed drivers that same year, clearly the hoops one needs to jump through to own and operate a car in the U.S. are simply punishing the vast majority of drivers who don't cause accidents. We "punish" them by forcing them to show a bare minimum of competence, that their equipment is functional, that they've got insurance, and by forcing them, when they buy new cars, to get ones with most of the latest safety features. Do you think the per-driver accident rate would go up or down if we did none of these things, and merely did a background check and a waiting period for buying cars? |
Great, then you are for "punishing" all legal drivers by confiscating their cars. Especially those big, scary SUVs. After all, it's for the children. |
Let me try this a different way: we are already "punishing" car ownership in the ways I'm talking about "punishing" gun ownership, and there are 209 million licensed drivers and 240+ million cars on the roads. Some punishment. again.
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The proposals being set forth is to ban classes of weapons, not additional licensure. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2012 : 10:42:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by moakley
Originally posted by Dave W.
But the 11-year-old is the only person facing charges, so far. That's ass flippin' backwards.
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Could be that I missed it, but do we really know how secured the Lanza guns were? Did Adam really have to break into a gun safe and remove trigger locks?
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Those are the storage requirements for Conneticutt. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2012 : 10:53:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
I don't know why it is, but it happens often. Mention gun safety and reasonable measures (regulations) for gun ownership, and the NRA and 2nd amendment hardliners yell, "you want to take away our guns!" The NRA thrives on the slippery slope fallacy. They hear the phrase "gun control" and that can only mean one thing to them. Not what is being proposed, but where, in their imaginations, it will lead. Suggest that a 30 round clip in a semi automatic weapon should be banned and they hear "they want all my guns!" It's rather frustrating when it comes from someone who is usually a fine critical thinker.
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Because many of the "new" suggestions are already law.
You have to get a FOID card. To purchase a weapon, you have to go through the BATF check and wait three days (don't have to do that with buying a car) or more depending on the state. You already can't own fully automatics after 1986 (under FOPA) unless you buy it from an individual and even then you have to make sure it was transferred properly and register the transfer. Since these weapons are 27 and aging, many have stopped working, several have been seized by BATF for an improper transfer, these are rich mens guns. Gun registration, like driver's licenses, is on a state by state basis. There are no federal driver's licensing requirements. And with Illinois pushing to publicize lists of gun owners (something they don't do with driver's licenses), the anti-gun movement tends to push for banning all gun ownership.
Clip limits don't make sense. It is a blanket fix that solves nothing. It tends to make existing small varmint guns illegal.
What is left? |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2012 : 11:14:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Originally posted by moakley
Originally posted by Dave W.
But the 11-year-old is the only person facing charges, so far. That's ass flippin' backwards.
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Could be that I missed it, but do we really know how secured the Lanza guns were? Did Adam really have to break into a gun safe and remove trigger locks?
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Those are the storage requirements for Conneticutt.
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So at this time we do not know whether these guns were stored as required. That it is possible that all Adam had to do was to walk into a closet. Not that I think this matters. How do you enforce storage requirements?
I thought the Tom Tomorrow link nailed it. I'd be surprised that any significant changes are made. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2012 : 11:21:05 [Permalink]
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Why shouldn't there be federal laws with regard to gun regulations?
Also, Val, would you support the gun show loophole that exists in several states? 40% of all guns sold are done so without any waiting period or background check at gun shows or privately. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Well regulated militias
