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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
 Posted - 07/11/2013 : 11:06:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Convinced
God in the Bible has already said how to be saved. So adding the requirement now to eat babies would not conform to Gods word and so I would reject that. |
So if god himself appeared to you and explained that the scribes who wrote the Bible were mere mortals who mistakenly left some bits out of the book, you'd ignore him?| Ok, so then you have no authority to make a judgment about my eating of babies. |
I have all the authority to make judgments about other people's actions that I need. If I saw you eating an infant, I'd say to myself (and others) "Convinced is a horrible person who I will avoid in the future." Why do you think I would have "no authority" to reach such a moral conclusion?
(And because your act probably involved kidnapping, murder or at least improper handling of a corpse, I'd call the secular authorities to at least investigate.) |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2013 : 15:46:33 [Permalink]
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Convinced said
| Ok, so then you have no authority to make a judgment about my eating of babies. |
Whenever a person rejects every secular reason given as to why such things are considered wrong, as Convinced just did, they have revealed themselves to be nothing more than a religiously-made psychopath. In trying to show that non-believers have no basis for morality, all they do is show us just what their morality is truly like. |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2013 : 15:55:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Convinced
Originally posted by the_ignored
That is original sin. Were you not just denying it earlier?? |
No. What I was refuting (rather poorly) was the claim that since we have a sin nature we are not responsible for our sin. We can still know right from wrong and act accordingly even with our sin nature.
| Why, if it's an inherited condition...one that he could have easily prevented by killing or sterilizing "adam and eve" and starting over with humanity. |
As far as I can tell the Bible does not say.
| You seem to think that God does not because we will sin inevitably because of our sin nature. Is this correct? |
Half. I know that the xian god "holds us accountable" but that he really shouldn't because we can't help it, because of our "sin nature" that he allowed to be passed on. |
What do you base this judgement on? You may disagree but the Bible says we are responsible. |
A book asserting something is one thing...justifying it is another. How can we be responsible for an "inherited" condition that is not our own fault?
Besides, how could adam and eve know that eating the fruit was wrong when they did not yet have the knowledge of good and evil?
Originally posted by Convinced
We cannot do anything good at all (Rom. 3:10-18)
How does a xian define "good"? According to you people, killing babies is good, so long as god orders it. Yet the rest of the time that same action is the vilest evil. Care to explain? |
I would say whatever god decrees is good is good. There are many apologetics on this but I think a relevant point is you are making a moral judgment of gods actions with no standard to do so. Why should I believe you that killing babies in 1 Sam 15 is just as wrong as murdering a baby today? |
I am using the moral standard of the morality that you people pretend was given to you by biblegod. Here: if you live by "god's standard", then why do xians oppose things like slavery then?
Originally posted by Convinced
| What about secular charities? Don't they do "good" or does giving aid to disaster victims and whatnot not fucking count unless it's god telling you to do it? |
Whether a christian gives to this charity or a non believer the act is still not good enough for god. He expects perfection in thought, word and deed. |
Too bad he doesn't give it himself. Remember when he told the prophet Samuel to lie to Saul about going off to see Davids' family?
Besides: If he demand such bloody "perfection" whatever that is: Why did he not stop adam and eve from having kids and thus propagating this "sin nature" of theirs in the first place??
Originally posted by [b]Convinced
A christian still sins and their good works are not good enough to please god either. That is why once saved the good works and righteousness of Jesus is given to us and our works were given to Jesus and he was punished for them. |
If he was truly punished for them, then why isn't he still in hell like we are supposed to be?
|
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2013 : 16:01:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Convinced
Originally posted by the_ignored
by Convinced
But it is also not correct to say I did not do any "good deeds" before I was a christian. |
Hold on a minute here. Didn't you say earlier that We cannot do anything good at all (Rom. 3:10-18) and We cannot do good (Isa. 64:6)
??
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That is what the quotation marks are for. I have done good deeds according to you or society and even god, but they are still sinful. Giving the hungry food is a good deed, it is just that we do that good deed with sin. We are commanded to do good, but my good deeds and your good deeds are just as sinful.
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What in the fuck is "sinful" about giving to charity?? |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2013 : 17:11:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
Whenever a person rejects every secular reason given as to why such things are considered wrong, as Convinced just did, they have revealed themselves to be nothing more than a religiously-made psychopath. In trying to show that non-believers have no basis for morality, all they do is show us just what their morality is truly like. |
The ironic thing, of course, is that their morality is based on a book chosen arbitrarily by centuries of cultural evolution, and so has no more "authority" than mine. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2013 : 18:57:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Convinced
Do you think being selfish or selfless is a better way to live and why or are they the same?
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Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus Philippians 2:3
Completely selfless. So by definition and ideal selfless is better.
But From Mark 10:45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many. So this selfless ideal may only be achievable by those without religion/faith since their good works are performed with complete indifference to the ransom paid.
Do you think that christians do good works only because of the promise of a reward?
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No I am saying that the reward offsets the cost calculation of you and Dave doing the same good works. I am also familiar with a few individuals who have left faith behind and continued to do good works. Doing good for the sake of doing good is pretty cool.
Edited for clarity. I hope. And bolded only |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
| Edited by - moakley on 07/11/2013 19:08:57 |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2013 : 20:07:23 [Permalink]
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It just hit me: If Convinced is so set on living life according to what god tells him, then why doesn't he follow some new testament advice of jesus which he gave to the rich man?
Something about "if you would be perfect, go and sell all you have and give the proceeds to the poor". |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2013 : 21:08:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
It just hit me: If Convinced is so set on living life according to what god tells him, then why doesn't he follow some new testament advice of jesus which he gave to the rich man?
Something about "if you would be perfect, go and sell all you have and give the proceeds to the poor". |
Hippy for Christ was working on doing something along those lines, ten years ago. I wonder how that worked out for him. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Convinced
Skeptic Friend
USA
384 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2013 : 11:14:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
Originally posted by Convinced
A christian still sins and their good works are not good enough to please god either. That is why once saved the good works and righteousness of Jesus is given to us and our works were given to Jesus and he was punished for them. |
If he was truly punished for them, then why isn't he still in hell like we are supposed to be? |
Because Jesus is an infinite being paying for an infinite punishment. |
Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Eph 5:15-17) |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2013 : 12:23:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Convinced
Originally posted by the_ignored
Originally posted by Convinced
A christian still sins and their good works are not good enough to please god either. That is why once saved the good works and righteousness of Jesus is given to us and our works were given to Jesus and he was punished for them. |
If he was truly punished for them, then why isn't he still in hell like we are supposed to be? |
Because Jesus is an infinite being paying for an infinite punishment.
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I suppose that according to biblical doctrine we are all infinite beings. That whatever poorly defined part of us that survives the death of our bodies will either endure an eternity of torture or an eternity of tedium. That part of my being will endure an infinite punishment a price equal to the one paid by Jesus.
Edited: Assuming that the part of me that survives represents my emotional and intellectual parts. But really, what's the point otherwise? |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
| Edited by - moakley on 07/17/2013 15:14:02 |
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God-given racism
