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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25829 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2017 :  21:28:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Forget demanding resignations, Trump is now firing people. His firing of acting Attorney General Sally Yates was to be expected, since she said she wouldn't enforce the immigration EO. The press release boldly claims that she "betrayed the Department of Justice." And then characterizes the EO as a call "for tougher vetting," when it is no such thing. One doesn't need to vet people banned from entry.

Of course, earlier Sean Spicer said to the press that State Department employees who don't agree with the EO should get out. Presumably he meant "get out of the State Department," but I wouldn't be surprised if he meant "get out of Trump's country."

Why Trump canned the director of ICE is anyone's guess. The press release doesn't say.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13339 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2017 :  23:10:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Pretty soon Trump and Co. will be demanding a loyalty oath, not necessarily to uphold the constitution.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25829 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2017 :  20:55:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The latest purge has been compared to Nixon's Saturday Night Massacre.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
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danny_wain13
New Member

United Kingdom
1 Post

Posted - 02/02/2017 :  05:31:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit danny_wain13's Homepage Send danny_wain13 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That was the worst choice of American people. Donald Trump and his idea to send all imigrants to mexico. build a wall? well done. I think he is the hitler of our time, but only in USA

[url=http://2hjul.nu/]Cykla[/url]
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Christian Hedonist
Skeptic Friend

90 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2017 :  10:25:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Christian Hedonist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by danny_wain13

That was the worst choice of American people. Donald Trump and his idea to send all imigrants to mexico. build a wall? well done. I think he is the hitler of our time, but only in USA
So you think he is going to kill immigrants in mass?
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Christian Hedonist
Skeptic Friend

90 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2017 :  10:48:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Christian Hedonist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

You are confusing biology and philosophy. It's a category error to see a fetus and budding algae as somehow fundamentally different.
Doesn’t the sequencing of the nucleotides in the DNA make the large difference? One will become human the other will become a plant. Do you value human life over other life?

Were God to do that, he would necessarily deprive me of my free will to choose.
Yep.

Grace" is not a term that I associate with your God at all. And I require something to repent for before I'll feel the need for repentance. I reject the notion that I am somehow responsible for the Fall, or that the "sins" listed in the Bible are anything but arbitrary nonsense mandated by a bully.
We are not responsible for Adams sin, but we are sinful because of it.

There's been no shortage of Presidents opposed to abortion:

Obama wanted to spread contraception and solid sex education far and wide to reduce unwanted pregnancies and thus reduce abortions, but was foiled by ridiculous puritanical ideas of how ignorance and fear would keep people from having sex.

W. wanted to ban all abortions except in the cases of rape, incest, or when mom's life was in danger. He supported all sorts of halfway measures trying to get there.

Bill Clinton's pastor believed that the Bible taught that fetuses only became people when they took their first breath, but that abortion still sucked. Clinton said:
I believe we should all work to reduce the number of abortions. That is why I have worked to reduce teen pregnancy, remove barriers to cross-racial adoption, and provide tax credits to families willing to adopt. Still, I believe the ultimate choice should remain a matter for a woman to decide in consultation with her conscience, her doctor, and her God.

Bush the Elder pro-choice until 1980, then fell in line with Reagan.

Reagan pushed for a constitutional amendment that would have banned all abortion except when necessary to save the life of the mother. He also created the "Global Gag Rule" that Trump just re-instated.

Carter believed "that abortion is wrong and that the government should try to discourage it by providing better sex education, family planning, and adoption procedures."

Etc.
But did they actually do anything about it? No. I think Trump sending Pence to the March for Life protest indicates that he might at least try.

God could stop it, but in His wisdom refuses to. Do you think Trump is more wise than God?
I agree God could stop abortions, he could stop headaches, cancer etc. There are many reasons given for why he does not. I am sure you have heard them all. Obviously there is a purpose for it or he would not allow it. But we do know that God sent his son to die for our sins so suffering will someday be gone.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25829 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2017 :  21:51:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Christian Hedonist

Originally posted by Dave W.

You are confusing biology and philosophy. It's a category error to see a fetus and budding algae as somehow fundamentally different.
Doesn’t the sequencing of the nucleotides in the DNA make the large difference?
That's just a different ordering of a different number of the same instructions, not a fundamental difference (like if one used five bases per codon, for example). Neither the nucleotides themselves nor the sequences of them understand the concepts of "human" or "algae." None of the instructions specifically say, "build a human body."

Do you value human life over other life?
Not at the base, physical layer, no. What makes humans special is the emergent property of mind. A human body without a mind is no more valuable than the value of its constituent chemicals (unless you happen to be in need of an organ or two).

We are not responsible for Adams sin, but we are sinful because of it.
No, we aren't. We are sinful because God allows us to be sinful. God set Adam up for the Fall. God knew it would happen, and allowed it anyway. God did this to us on purpose, and now demands he be allowed to "save" us from what he did by believing that he had himself made into a blood sacrifice or else he gets to punish us forever. It's mind-blowingly sadistic and barbaric.

There's been no shortage of Presidents opposed to abortion...
But did they actually do anything about it? No.
Yes.
I think Trump sending Pence to the March for Life protest indicates that he might at least try.
I think you're giving him far too much credit. The only thing consistent about Trump is that he believes whatever suits him best at any particular moment. He needed praise that weekend, but couldn't be bothered to attend himself, so he basked in the praise lavished on his proxy, instead. Pence is the one with the solid anti-abortion record, after all.

God could stop it, but in His wisdom refuses to. Do you think Trump is more wise than God?
I agree God could stop abortions, he could stop headaches, cancer etc. There are many reasons given for why he does not. I am sure you have heard them all. Obviously there is a purpose for it or he would not allow it. But we do know that God sent his son to die for our sins so suffering will someday be gone.
Are you seriously comparing Trump to Jesus?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
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Christian Hedonist
Skeptic Friend

90 Posts

Posted - 02/03/2017 :  10:42:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Christian Hedonist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

That's just a different ordering of a different number of the same instructions, not a fundamental difference (like if one used five bases per codon, for example). Neither the nucleotides themselves nor the sequences of them understand the concepts of "human" or "algae." None of the instructions specifically say, "build a human body."
No, but won't that particular sequence do that?

Not at the base, physical layer, no. What makes humans special is the emergent property of mind. A human body without a mind is no more valuable than the value of its constituent chemicals (unless you happen to be in need of an organ or two).
But you can't have a human mind without a body. I guess we just disagree.

No, we aren't. We are sinful because God allows us to be sinful. God set Adam up for the Fall. God knew it would happen, and allowed it anyway. God did this to us on purpose, and now demands he be allowed to "save" us from what he did by believing that he had himself made into a blood sacrifice or else he gets to punish us forever. It's mind-blowingly sadistic and barbaric.
Ok.

I think you're giving him far too much credit. The only thing consistent about Trump is that he believes whatever suits him best at any particular moment. He needed praise that weekend, but couldn't be bothered to attend himself, so he basked in the praise lavished on his proxy, instead. Pence is the one with the solid anti-abortion record, after all.
I don't disagree. It was good to see the VP talk about it though in a different way than President Obama telling us he wouldn't want his kids "punished with a baby".

God could stop it, but in His wisdom refuses to. Do you think Trump is more wise than God?
I agree God could stop abortions, he could stop headaches, cancer etc. There are many reasons given for why he does not. I am sure you have heard them all. Obviously there is a purpose for it or he would not allow it. But we do know that God sent his son to die for our sins so suffering will someday be gone.
Are you seriously comparing Trump to Jesus?
No. I was not talking about Trump at all.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9645 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2017 :  11:39:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Christian Hedonist
But you can't have a human mind without a body.
What's your point?
A computer is useless without program, and a program is useless without a computer running it.
But this is a flawed analogy. A program is not an emergent property of a computer. But the mind is.

But you can't have a human mind without a body.
Not yet, anyway.

Once we have the hardware to emulate a human brain, then we're in for some interesting times in the soft sciences...

I don't disagree. It was good to see the VP talk about it though in a different way than President Obama telling us he wouldn't want his kids "punished with a baby".

Did Obama really say that? And in that case, what was the context? I'm a bit suspicious, because people who disapprove Obama has been known to quote him out of context in order to make him look bad.

Besides, VP can bluster all he wants about abortion. The decision isn't his to make.


Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 02/05/2017 11:41:54
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25829 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2017 :  22:23:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Week 2 in Trump's America

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Christian Hedonist
Skeptic Friend

90 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2017 :  11:23:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Christian Hedonist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse


But you can't have a human mind without a body.
Not yet, anyway.

Once we have the hardware to emulate a human brain, then we're in for some interesting times in the soft sciences...


Yeah, Is a machine that acts just like a human really human or not?



I don't disagree. It was good to see the VP talk about it though in a different way than President Obama telling us he wouldn't want his kids "punished with a baby".

Did Obama really say that? And in that case, what was the context? I'm a bit suspicious, because people who disapprove Obama has been known to quote him out of context in order to make him look bad.

Besides, VP can bluster all he wants about abortion. The decision isn't his to make.



Here is the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEV9BO4s1So

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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf

USA
1390 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2017 :  15:12:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit ThorGoLucky's Homepage Send ThorGoLucky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't get bothering to make machines behave like humans. Make them better! Humans are dragged down by evolutionary baggage including irrational fears, bad memory, easily-warped perceptions (e.g. tribalism), bad statistical analysis, and arrogantly take feeling truth with actual truth regardless of evidence. Humans are idiots and an improved replacement cannot come fast enough.
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

United Kingdom
1249 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2017 :  23:50:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A machine or perfectly logical human would kill one person to save 2 without batting an eye.

Edited by - On fire for Christ on 02/06/2017 23:51:26
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25829 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2017 :  10:09:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Christian Hedonist

But you can't have a human mind without a body. I guess we just disagree.
All human minds require bodies, but a human body does not require a mind.

The point is this: is a human body without a mind a person entitled to the full protection of the law? If so, then how long after death do we need to wait before the body becomes a non-person and we can legally start doing things like distributing assets?

If not, then we can do whatever we want to fetuses prior to that point in time when a brain is formed that is sophisticated enough to be "home" to a human mind.

It was good to see the VP talk about it though in a different way than President Obama telling us he wouldn't want his kids "punished with a baby".
Well, that's exactly the mind-set of many opponents of abortion access: those women messed around and got knocked up, so being forced to carry the pregnancy is just punishment for their sinful ways.

God could stop it, but in His wisdom refuses to. Do you think Trump is more wise than God?
I agree God could stop abortions, he could stop headaches, cancer etc. There are many reasons given for why he does not. I am sure you have heard them all. Obviously there is a purpose for it or he would not allow it. But we do know that God sent his son to die for our sins so suffering will someday be gone.
Are you seriously comparing Trump to Jesus?
No. I was not talking about Trump at all.
But you were. You began by hoping that Trump could stop the "atrocity," and I asked you if you think that Trump is more wise than God. I guess you didn't want to answer that question, and so answered some question that didn't involve Trump.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25829 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2017 :  10:10:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by On fire for Christ

A machine or perfectly logical human would kill one person to save 2 without batting an eye.
You say that like it's a bad thing.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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