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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
 Posted - 04/30/2007 : 20:43:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
Richard, from Chicago, seems to have sence of humor:
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I have always said a little knowledge is more dangerous than none at all, especially in the right hands.
At least, Bill, this guy blames the correct side of the politics: "...especially in the right hands." Well said, Richard. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2007 : 21:02:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Couldn't have been the work of OAPEC, now could it have, Carol? Good grief, Bill, Carter wasn't even in office when the famous gas lines occured nationwide. There's an off chance that she's talking about an isolated gas line during the 1979 crisis, but that was due to Iran, not any worry about global cooling. Can you not remember any of this, either?
My guess is that bill does remember and does know that Carol is full of shit on the reason for the gas shortages, but it doesn't matter to him since she thinks global warming is a myth and she hates Al Gore. What does it matter if she gets a few of her facts wrong?
When you have an anti-science agenda, you can't be choosy about who you let inside the big tent.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 04/30/2007 21:04:43 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2007 : 21:45:07 [Permalink]
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Wow. That is the strangest series of posts I have ever seen on this site, and that's saying something. Perhaps, and not to over analyze this, Bill may feel so outgunned here that he has brought 3 phantom friends over to do battle with us, all in separate posts and without a link to where they came from.
How odd…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2007 : 04:47:45 [Permalink]
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| I think it's particularly telling that Bill put this in the politics folder. To him, this actually isn't about science. It's about politics. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2007 : 04:58:54 [Permalink]
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Even a simple search turns out more thorough articles. Indeed, it seems that the whole argument is based on the rather suspect claims of one guy, Habibullo Abdussamatov, head of space research at St. Petersburg's Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory in Russia.
Meanwhile, there are apparently easy explanations for Mars' "warming" (if one can call it that; the best I can see is that the hoopla is based on the fact that the Martian caps have been shrinking for a whopping three straight years-- not exactly the strongest trend in the galaxy, I'd say...). If only Bill and his motley assortment of phantom friends would bother to read about them! |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 05/01/2007 : 05:04:46 [Permalink]
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Hey Bill, look, bro, what is your problem with Gore, really? I mean, he's not out there embezzeling widow's life savings nor starting idiotic wars, nor raping alter boys, nor doing much of anything at all but following his conscience. He has the where-with-all and the support to pass his message on in a way that has an impact upon his audience, and that message is supported by the latest, scientific consensus.
It really makes little difference at all whether global warming is man-made; it's a'comin' and we'd better start "doin' somethin', if'n it's wrong," as we rednecks say.
But what the hell, let's say, just for the exercise, that our activities have nothing to do with it, but Gore has still convinced us that we should conserve in every way that we can, and we do. Then we will have followed an essentially false doctrine, yes, but yet, what will have we lost?
Nothing. Indeed, in a manner of speaking we will have profited.
Now, I don't approve of unnecessary airplane travel (I don't approve of airplanes at all), but in his case it is not unnecessary. And even you have to admit that Gore has been highly effective.
Heh, you can gauge that effectiveness by the howls of anguished denial from those with interests in energy companies, either invested in or donated to, and their political fellow-traverers.
I don't know, nor care, if you are invested in the Oil Patch or some power companies, or even profited from the ENRON rip-off -- I take some of that back! I'd hate to think that I'd tried to be civil to a lying, thieving piece of common, ENRON trash -- what I care about is the accuracy and the implementation of the science, and I am willing to overlook, albeit perhaps grudgingly, a little extravagence if it helps forward the message.
Would you rather Gore dressed in sackcloth and ashes, and stood ranting on street corners, and dodging public nuisance charges?
There is nothing that you and I can do about China's coal power buildup beyond deplore the sulphurous fumes it emmits. There is nothing AL Gore can do about it either, at least not at this time.... So invoking China, India, and Mars!, is a straw man ripe with the fragrance of rotting, red fish.
So, whaddafork, Bill? Are we going to do what we can about it, or just sit around bitching about some few who are trying to?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 05/01/2007 05:11:15 |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2007 : 06:30:09 [Permalink]
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Hey Bill, I was wondering if you ever going to get around to responding to this post from Kil waaayyyy back on April 6th?
http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7832&whichpage=2#116431
You said that you were going to discuss Kil's facts "shortly". Does 25 days count as shortly?
It's alright. I understand why you might want to stick to silly little tactics like skewering Al Gore because you don't like him vs. actually debating the facts. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2007 : 09:59:46 [Permalink]
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Any argument that suggests that global warming on mars means that what is happening on earth is a natural trend due primarily to solar heating fails by its own criteria. It's simplistic reasoning. By the same reasoning, every planet, moon and asteroid in our solar system should also be heating up. Some are, for a variety of reasons, but many are not.
In order to make the argument that solar heating is the sole cause of global warming on the planets and moons in our solar system, you must also then explain why many planets and moons, some with dense atmospheres, are not getting hotter. Why do they remain temperature stable?
I know Bill has already been directed to Phil Plait's blog on the subject of cherry picking evidence and ignoring that which contradicts his support for a simplistic solution to the problem. The link to that article is on page one of this thread. I will not trouble myself with linking to it again because Bill seems to have an aversion to checking out and commenting on that which he does not agree with. So why bother.
I only bring this up again to see if Bill will honestly face the problem of selecting those planets and moons that are heating up, to support his solar heating contention, while ignoring those that are not…
“For every complex problem, there is a solution that is
simple, neat, and wrong." --Henry L. Mencken
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2007 : 10:22:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
I only bring this up again to see if Bill will honestly face the problem of selecting those planets and moons that are heating up, to support his solar heating contention, while ignoring those that are not…
But Bill didn't make any such contention. Carol did, but we've already dealt with her vapidity. Bill's only contention is that because there's natural, dramatic climate change on Mars, why couldn't the same be true here? That argument necessarily paints all climate scientists as being incompetent, by virtue of the fact that it assumes that the scientists have failed to consider natural causes.
Oh, Bill also said some more nonsense about Gore, as if Al is the Lord-God-King arbiter of climate science. Bill and Carol should really avoid hooking up. Their love child would likely wind up in prison after years of anti-Gore propaganda from his parents drive the boy to infiltrate the Gore's compound and ironically set it ablaze. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2007 : 11:14:20 [Permalink]
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So, Bill, who's putting all that excess CO2 into earth's atmosphere, at a rate that so neatly matches historical global warming, hmmm? The sun? God? Or man?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2007 : 17:00:43 [Permalink]
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Since there are only two sets of measurments from Mars, at two different times, with two different instruments, the deviation in temperature could easily be explained with a misalignment in the calibration between the two instruments.
Had there been at least a dozen measurement points between the time of the Viking lander and present time, there would have been easier to say if there actually is a trend, or if one or two of the measurements are out of alignment. The statistical accuracy isn't high on only two measurement points, especially with different individual instruments. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2007 : 19:24:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
...scientists are scrambling to make up an excuse for why Mars is heating like the Earth...
That's funny. "...scrambling..." and "...make up and excuse..." I guess the scrambling takes place only after the secret scientist handshake at the secret meetings of the "Make Up An Excuse Science Center" where all scientists really go. (Though they say they're going to the store to buy more milk and toilet paper.)  |
Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2007 : 19:30:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by [b]filthy[/b
quote:
Hey Bill, look, bro, what is your problem with Gore, really? I mean, he's not out there embezzeling widow's life savings nor starting idiotic wars, nor raping alter boys, nor doing much of anything at all but following his conscience. He has the where-with-all and the support to pass his message on in a way that has an impact upon his audience, and that message is supported by the latest, scientific consensus.
He is just the poster boy for MMGW, so he is in the public eye the most. I admit that Al Gore no more speaks for every MMGW theorist then does Jerry F. or Benny H. for all Christians, (X-ians) so therefore I will drop Al if you wish.
quote:
It really makes little difference at all whether global warming is man-made; it's a'comin' and we'd better start "doin' somethin', if'n it's wrong," as we rednecks say
You really think we can alter a completely natural phenomena, if that is what this is?
quote:
But what the hell, let's say, just for the exercise, that our activities have nothing to do with it, but Gore has still convinced us that we should conserve in every way that we can, and we do. Then we will have followed an essentially false doctrine, yes, but yet, what will have we lost?
I see what you're saying. My only concern is that switching to CFL's is like bringing a knife to a gun fight when we consider the alarming rate of coal proliferation going on through out our planet. Yes it helps, but on the grand scale the fact is that anything we do will be negated by the rise of global coal proliferation. I say the rate could exceed any steps we make here.
quote:
Now, I don't approve of unnecessary airplane travel (I don't approve of airplanes at all), but in his case it is not unnecessary. And even you have to admit that Gore has been highly effective.
At what, switching Americans on to CFL's? Again, good for Gore, but on the grand scale it is a superficial gesture, at best.
quote:
Heh, you can gauge that effectiveness by the howls of anguished denial from those with interests in energy companies, either invested in or donated to, and their political fellow-traverers.
I won't deny the obvious decay of business ethics that has taken place in our country.
quote:
I don't know, nor care, if you are invested in the Oil Patch or some power companies, or even profited from the ENRON rip-off -- I take some of that back! I'd hate to think that I'd tried to be civil to a lying, thieving piece of common, ENRON trash -- what I care about is the accuracy and the implementation of the science, and I am willing to overlook, albeit perhap |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2007 : 20:43:44 [Permalink]
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bill said:
quote:
I see what you're saying. My only concern is that switching to CFL's is like bringing a knife to a gun fight when we consider the alarming rate of coal proliferation going on through out our planet. Yes it helps, but on the grand scale the fact is that anything we do will be negated by the rise of global coal proliferation. I say the rate could exceed any steps we make here.
I'd rather have a knife at a gunfight than be unarmed.
And yes, we have been saying it in every thread you are posting in about global warming... WE KNOW THAT THE BIG CHANGES THAT NEED TO BE MADE CAN ONLY BE MADE BY GOVERNMENTS>
But, to fucking bad for us all, our current government barely recognizes that humans are, with almost unprecedented scientific confidence, CONTRIBUTING to global warming.
They, and you, are the real problem here Bill. People who refuse to accept the scientific consensus and refuse to insist on immediate action.
You buy all the lies. You probably honestly believe that it is unfair economically for the US to restrict CO2 pollution, but not insist in it from smaller developing countries. The exact opposite is true, on the large scale. Sure, some people are going to lose money. The people heavily invested in fossil fuel.
But the economy will not flinch, because the energy demand remains the same! Some means to fill that demand will exist, and the total economic impact will be negligible.
We need to rapidly expand our wind infrastructure.
We need to enforce fuel efficiency standards, like the Chinese and Europeans are doing.
We need to rapidly expand our E85 distribution infrastructure AND rapidly increase our capability to produce cellulosic ethanol.
Those things will require government level action.
Of course, if you believe the fossil fuel people, MMGW is nothing more than a liberal conspiracy. Amazing how they have managed to continue to have the support of the republican base by simply letting MMGW become an issue advocated for almost entirely by democrats and other liberals. LOOK! The Dems say MMGW is real, so you KNOW its bullshit, right? RIGHT!
And you pathetic nonthinking lack-wits just fall in line and agree, never once taking a minute to examine the facts and evidence and overwhelming scientific consensus on the issue. Because, fuck it, you can't hold the same position as a Dem, no matter what.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Climate change hits Mars
