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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2007 :  12:09:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dude

Gorgo said:
Economic justice is allowing you to keep the proceeds of your labor to do with what you choose. It can not be just to take from you and give to another.


Wrong again.

Economic justice, if you would bother to do some basic internet research before you put your ignorance on display, is about the redistribution of wealth.

Go read some Rawls, and John Locke. Then do a basic google search with the words "economic justice".




Not me

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2007 :  12:10:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dude

Gorgo said:
what makes you think more government control will change this?


If you want to participate in a discussion, you are going to have to learn how to read or something, and stop inventing shit and pretending others have said it.

No where, ever, have I suggested that the US has an unrestricted free market. Ours is tightly regulated, probably a bit on the overregulated side.

My comments were in reference to what it appeared you were talking about, the libertarian position of economics.

Seriously Gorgo, you shouldn't wonder why you are on the recieving end of so much abuse here on these boards when you do things like this regularly. Get a fucking clue, then get back to me.




not me

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2007 :  12:25:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Errr apologies Gorgo.

Jerome is who I was responding to, not you.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2007 :  12:33:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gorgo said:
Actually, I'm not on the receiving end of any abuse.


The reason I wrongly attributed Jerome's post to you was mainly because I'm tired (woked a very long stretch). But the similarity in your style is there as well.

And yes, you provoke abuse here all the time. Not saying you are deserving of it, just that you do provoke it.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2007 :  12:39:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dude

Gorgo said:
Actually, I'm not on the receiving end of any abuse.


The reason I wrongly attributed Jerome's post to you was mainly because I'm tired (woked a very long stretch). But the similarity in your style is there as well.

And yes, you provoke abuse here all the time. Not saying you are deserving of it, just that you do provoke it.




Yeah. I apologize, but....

I like it, though. That may be the first apology I've ever received here. It's a start.

We all work long hours. We are capitalists.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Edited by - Gorgo on 09/05/2007 12:40:22
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13470 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2007 :  17:33:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by Kil

I think Shermer's attempt to make libertarianism the default politic for skeptics is wrong. But being wrong in this case does not mean you are not a good skeptic. It isn't a matter of PC. The two modes of thought really don't conflict.
I think a good argument could be made that since ideal Libertarianism requires ideal humans - something there will never be many of - then the two are in conflict since skepticism depends upon realism and not idealism.

Good grief:
Shermer, who considers Objectivism "perfectly sound ... the best thing going"...

- Wikipedia
In a perfect world it might be perfectly sound, but Shermer should know that the world is far from perfect.


Yeah, well, you won't see me defending libertarianism. Thing is, having a goal that requires idealism is a pretty common approach that most of us take when discussing how we think things should be. And the ultimate goal of a perfect system has yet to be realized, even with our idealism. I wouldn't assume that Shermer is not aware of that.

I agree that libertarianism is too dependent on people acting rationally and reasonably on all matters. But the same can be said for communism, capitalism and any other ism I can think of.

There is idealism in my thinking that critical thinking could someday be the default method for analyzing any claim of fact to be held by the majority of the population. And I will pursue that goal even though there is a whole lot of evidence that suggests that I am spitting into the wind with that one.



Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2007 :  23:25:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dude

Errr apologies Gorgo.

Jerome is who I was responding to, not you.




Does this mean you meant it directed at me?


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2007 :  00:46:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gorgo said:
Yeah. I apologize, but....

I like it, though. That may be the first apology I've ever received here. It's a start.

We all work long hours. We are capitalists.


I'm not offering anthing as an excuse, I did it, and I was wrong. It wasn't intentional, but...

It was my error. I'm not a person who would try to cover it up or shift the blame or dodge the responsibility. Looking back again, it may also have had something to do with the orange color on both of your avatars. Kinda funny actually.

But if I wrongly attribute the words of other people, I am happy to be corrected, no matter the reason for my error, and will offer an apology every time.



Jerome: Yes.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2007 :  06:44:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message  Reply with Quote

And yes, you provoke abuse here all the time. Not saying you are deserving of it, just that you do provoke it.


Judge: Madam, I'm not saying you deserved the rape, but you definitely provoked it.

Woman: I appreciate your position, your honor. I'm sure that particular position, with your head up your ass, is too painful to make an intelligent comment.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26014 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2007 :  16:31:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Gorgo

Judge: Madam, I'm not saying you deserved the rape, but you definitely provoked it.
I can't help but think that comparing online insults to rape is one of the reasons you provoke abuse, Gorgo.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2007 :  18:36:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by Gorgo

Judge: Madam, I'm not saying you deserved the rape, but you definitely provoked it.
I can't help but think that comparing online insults to rape is one of the reasons you provoke abuse, Gorgo.


The logic is the same. To say I provoke abuse is to say two things.

1) There is abuse
2) I caused it, thus relieving those who "abuse" of any responsibility. It is equal to saying that I deserve it. That is the point of the joke, not that I was raped. But, you seem to miss a lot of points, as well as definitions, just for the purpose of finding a way to be hostile.

I questioned why this is a hostile place, and now I realize it's because those that run it love and promote it. This is another indicator.


And here you are not only being hostile to me, but you ignore Dude's hostility, once again. No, you don't ignore it, you encourage it.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Edited by - Gorgo on 09/06/2007 18:40:09
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2007 :  19:04:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What is the news?

The idea is to get your point across through the barrage. That is the fun part of the thinking process.


What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26014 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2007 :  19:48:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Gorgo

And here you are not only being hostile to me...
I wasn't hostile to you.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2007 :  22:04:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For most people, life is a river. Events pass and flow by them, never to recur again.

For Gorgo, life is a cesspool. Slights are never forgotten. Events just spin and spin and circle back again.

Yes, Gorgo, I'm saying you really need to let go already, especially since whatever insults you've experienced here were entirely deserved. Own up to how people treat you already. How you are treated is a direct function of your personality, not others. It seems you still have not learned this basic social rule.

The SFN is not a playground, Gorgo, nor must they line the forums with foam so that your ego doesn't get bruised. And stop denying that you're sensitive. This latest outburst cements the fact that you are honestly the biggest whiner I've ever known.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED

2418 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2007 :  22:25:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send JEROME DA GNOME a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by H. Humbert

For most people, life is a river. Events pass and flow by them, never to recur again.

For Gorgo, life is a cesspool. Slights are never forgotten. Events just spin and spin and circle back again.

Yes, Gorgo, I'm saying you really need to let go already, especially since whatever insults you've experienced here were entirely deserved. Own up to how people treat you already. How you are treated is a direct function of your personality, not others. It seems you still have not learned this basic social rule.

The SFN is not a playground, Gorgo, nor must they line the forums with foam so that your ego doesn't get bruised. And stop denying that you're sensitive. This latest outburst cements the fact that you are honestly the biggest whiner I've ever known.




You deserve to be called an ASSHOLE.

Try not to whine.

Also, your avatar presents an ASSHOLE.

Try not to whine.







What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell
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