|
|
|
Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 02/26/2008 : 00:16:15 [Permalink]
|
Pelayo asked:
When is the last time Christians killed 3000 people in one day and used Biblical texts to justify the deed?
|
1845 the Southern Baptist Convention was founded with the purpose of providing scriptural justification for the practice of slavery.
1864: Sand Creek Massacre, 400-600 Native Americans (including women and children) killed by Colonel John Chivington, a former Methodist minister and still elder in the church, and his cavalry unit.
1942-1943: Extermination camps in Croatia run by Catholic Ustasha under their dictator Ante Pavelic, who was a practicing Catholic and acquaintance of the pope. The pope had full knowledge of these camps, a Franciscan friar was even in a command position in one of them. Plug "Jasenovac concentration camp" into google. Then look up "Miroslav Filipovic". The pope didn't bother to even condem this guy or these camps.
1994: Catholic clergy actively participate in the Rwandan genocide. Two of them get a death sentence in 1998 for their actions.
Then there is the most evil christian of all, Hitler. His deeds are well documented.
But really, come over to this thread and tell me how nationless religious fanatics actually present a threat to civilization. Bring the details.
(spelling edit) |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
|
| Edited by - Dude on 02/26/2008 00:18:15 |
 |
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2008 : 04:16:01 [Permalink]
|
The Inquisition(s). Didn't happen all in a day of course, but it was a lot more vicious and the body count was much higher. | By the second half of the 18th century, the Inquisition abated, due to the spread of enlightened ideas and lack of resources. The last auto de fe in Portugal took place on October 27, 1765. Not until 1808, during the brief reign of Joseph Bonaparte, was the Inquisition abolished in Spain. An estimated 31,912 heretics were burned at the stake, 17,659 were burned in effigy and 291,450 made reconciliations in the Spanish Inquisition. In Portugal, about 40,000 cases were tried, although only 1,800 were burned, the rest made penance. |
Also The Crusades, which is the root cause of current, Muslim hatred. The First Crusade was the most successful from a military point of view. Accounts of this action are shocking. For example, historian Raymond of Agiles described the capture of Jerusalem by the Crusaders in 1099:
Some of our men cut off the heads of their enemies; others shot them with arrows, so that they fell from the towers; others tortured them longer by casting them into the flames. Piles of heads, hands and feet were to be seen in the streets of the city. It was necessary to pick one's way over the bodies of men and horses. But these were small matters compared to what happened at the temple of Solomon, a place where religious services ware ordinarily chanted. What happened there? If I tell the truth, it will exceed your powers of belief. So let it suffice to say this much at least, that in the temple and portico of Solomon, men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins. |
Christian innocence is nonexistent in these matters. They have been just as foul as any others, and even more so.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
| Edited by - filthy on 02/26/2008 04:16:40 |
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2008 : 04:54:49 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Dude
gorgo said:
| Worker's rights will continue to erode, ethnic cleansing and murder and poverty will be a priority for Dude's heroes, and you'll continue to call yourselves "pragmatic" and think you're wise for using words like "loathe" and "asshole" and "douchebag" when you're talking about people who are attempting to improve something. |
Listen fuckwit. Get down off your little pity pedestal and stop being a self-righteous asshole. Stop making personal statements that are designed only to piss people off.
Ralph Nader isn't trying to improve anything except his own bank account at this point. He made no difference in 2004, his candidacy in 2000 resulted in a Bush regime for 8 years, and his candidacy in 2008 doesn't do shit except increase the odds of having a president who is the farthest away from Nader's ideals of any candidate out there.
I'm sorry you are so wrapped up in your own self righteous pity and delusional worldview that you are willing to let Nader help the republicans win again.
Nader has become an asshole and a douchebag worthy only of ridicule and loathing. Because he, like you, is unwilling to accept responsibility for the consequences of his actions.
|
Insults aside, please tell me what part of anything I said in this thread that isn't true. You've said that you were supportive of Clinton, his murderous behavior aside, because he was was torn apart by the Republicans and stood strong. Surely heroic behavior, if you overlook his lying about his affair. You ignored his murderous behavior, and supported your hero. Why is that insulting? Same with Gore. He (like Kissinger) won a Nobel Prize. Never mind his possible participation in murderous behavior, you find his actions heroic.
You think it's wise to call people fuckwits and douchebags. Am I wrong? You think it's wise to ignore what you love to put in quotes, actions that are clearly illegal. The bombings, the support of ethnic cleansing. The continued blockade of Cuba, the destruction of Haiti, the imprisonment of millions of our own citizens.
What part of this is wrong? Please don't take any of it as an insult. I see you're an intelligent man. Maybe I can learn something. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
|
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2008 : 06:06:27 [Permalink]
|
I've always made it my policy here to apologize for insults that people have perceived that came from me. Maybe I've been lax in that because we have a past, Dude. I apologize for whatever I've said that you've taken as insulting. I meant none of it as insulting. I've made statements of fact which you can refute or not.
As long as you continue to vote for people who don't work for you, they will continue to see you as irrelevant. You will just be another supporter of their crimes. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
|
|
Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2008 : 08:07:08 [Permalink]
|
| We've established that we don't speak the same English, Dave. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2008 : 09:01:02 [Permalink]
|
Ah c'mon guys; give it a rest. Or take it to PM. A lot of barnyard pecking back and forth never gives new or better information, nor even changes opinion.
Me, I think Nader is wasting his time and no one else's this round. Very few are going to pay him much more attention than they would give some minor anomily in a quilt pattern.
There is no easy cure for the ruin the Conservatives have wrought us. Neither party has one nor does Nader. It will take time, effort and dedication over that time. Indeed, dedicated Nader might be, but by trying to confuse the election, he is merely adding to it.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2008 : 10:43:08 [Permalink]
|
2 Cents: The fact that Nader's candidacy is so troublesome for the Democrats is not a problem with Nader as much as with our flawed electoral system. This whole spoiler issue, which effectively limits our politics to 2 parties regardless of how bad they become, would be moot if our electoral system had a sensible runoff provision. If 3 or 5 or 8 candidates run and no single candidate gets 51% of the vote, then re-run the election with just the top 2 from the first round. Simple and highly democratic.
While I'm on the soap box, here's another idea: None of the Above. If this were a choice on every ballot, coupled with run-off elections, it would force candidates to seek your approval, not just sew disapproval for the opponent. That is, it would stop negative campaigning which usually ends up with voters choosing the candidate they hate the least. |
-Chaloobi
|
| Edited by - chaloobi on 02/26/2008 10:44:07 |
|
|
|
Pelayo
Skeptic Friend
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2008 : 10:49:38 [Permalink]
|
| Filthy, you are allowing your dislike of Christianity cloud your world view. Go to this new thread Dude started - http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9589 |
I have a habit of posting without reading all previous comments, if I am repeating someone, well, excuse me, please.
"No tendency is quite so strong in human nature as the desire to lay down rules of conduct for other people." - William Howard Taft
"God ran out of new souls a long time ago and has been recycling jackasses." - Anon |
|
|
|
bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2008 : 15:30:10 [Permalink]
|
Gorgo.....
You are indeed a strange person! You say, addressing my comment:| I didn't say I was advocating anyone. My biggest problem is the insults and lack of thinking when it comes to vilifying Nader. |
1. I emphatically did not vilify Nader, I clearly stated that he probably would make a better president than any of the alternatives! I probably would vote for him. BUT HE CANNOT WIN!! IT IS 99.9% IMPOSSIBLE! So why waste a vote; the only pragmatic answer is to choose the lesser of two evils and vote for one of them! Every single voters secret ballot is symbolic when only considered by itself. So who are you impressing by voting for Nader? Or Jesus? Or the Buddha?
And I did not insult you or Nader!
and.....| Here's the political reality. Maybe I shouldn't speak to you, because maybe you're in the upper 1 percent class. If you are, then continue to send your millions to the demopublicans |
2. Upper 1% class of what? My net worth and income is certainly higher than the US median, but I don't believe I'm in the upper 1% class of any economic stratification you could make! But what's your point?
I donate money to the Democrats because they need money to WIN against Republicans who have created one of the biggest concatenations of political, foreign policy and ethical cesspools that this country has ever experienced in it's 232 year history!
We have a two-party system, Gorgo, and you are blind and foolish if you don't recognize that! I don't like it any better than you do, but I am realistic enough to accept it as a fact that I cannot change!
Particularly, again addressing me....| Worker's rights will continue to erode, ethnic cleansing and murder and poverty will be a priority for Dude's heroes, and you'll continue to call yourselves "pragmatic" and think you're wise for using words like "loathe" and "asshole" and "douchebag" when you're talking about people who are attempting to improve something. |
3. Your optimistic prognosis of a Hillary (or much more likely) Obama administration is a possibility. It's probability increases exponentially if we fail to elect a Democratic majority, liberal and progressive Congress.
The importance of Obama having a like-minded Congress to get liberal legislation passed cannot be overstated. He will be largely impotent with a small Democratic majority or, worse yet, a return to the criminal Republican majority that we have had for so long.
But anything we get from the decidedly soiled Democrats will be infinitely better than what we have had from the feces-caked Bush, Cheney neocons, and an unbelivably corrupt, largely Republican Congress for most of the last eight years! Of course it is a matter of voting for the lesser of two evils. It always is. And it would simply be voting for the least of three evils if we had a viable third party. It is the nature of the #1 money, #2 power, #3 vested interests political system we have in this country. It is venal, greed-driven and corrupt; but it's what we got and nobody's going to change it between now and November. Or probably Eternity!
Finally, I did not use the words "loathe", "asshole" and "douchebag"! In reference to you, Nader or anyone. The silly juvenility of those middle-school defamations is what caused me to seriously implore Dave and Kil to clean up this playground a while back. If for no other reason than to compel the utilization of a little more sophisticated pejorative among the vocabulary-challenged, and keep these discourses on a more adult level!
But,Gorgo, you cannot believe that your and Marf's Quixotic espousal of and voting for Nader can have anything but a symbolic value! If you were able to influence, from your limited pulpit, even a few thousand voters, it would not matter in the least, no matter what state or political district you live in! Other than to subtract a few thousand votes from the upcoming Democratic landslide!
The Nader factor, unlike Perot, has never even been a blip on the political radar. Nor will it in the upcoming election!
|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 02/26/2008 : 16:30:16 [Permalink]
|
Already in that one, bro. Really, I don't dislike Christianity any more than I do any other sacred myth. Except when it's more rabid followers propose to force their lies and their nonsense into the schools in defiance of sound, scientific theroy, or persecute others for not believing as they do. Then I tend to get a mite miffed. Otherwise, I'm an equal opportunity atheist.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2008 : 18:51:10 [Permalink]
|
chaloobi said:
| 2 Cents: The fact that Nader's candidacy is so troublesome for the Democrats is not a problem with Nader as much as with our flawed electoral system. This whole spoiler issue, which effectively limits our politics to 2 parties regardless of how bad they become, would be moot if our electoral system had a sensible runoff provision. If 3 or 5 or 8 candidates run and no single candidate gets 51% of the vote, then re-run the election with just the top 2 from the first round. Simple and highly democratic. |
Exactly!
|
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
|
|
|
|
@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2008 : 19:31:09 [Permalink]
|
I'm glad Nader's running. He represents the views of many Americans, myself included. Any votes he may get are there for other candidates to win. It's called democracy. Get over it.
@
|
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
|
|
|
Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2008 : 20:25:30 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by @tomic
I'm glad Nader's running. He represents the views of many Americans, myself included. Any votes he may get are there for other candidates to win. It's called democracy. Get over it.
@
|
Hurray for America!!! |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
|
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2008 : 21:36:31 [Permalink]
|
| That is an excellent point chaloobi. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Ralph Nader...
Official Warning