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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2008 :  21:32:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Marf Thanks for the giggles. I got a mental image of you running around all over the place with your nose bothering you and all the little boogers with runny noses and grubby hands plus a few bathroom accidents and....well, I don't have any grandchildren, so it's been a long time since I've been around little ones and I know it isn't the least bit funny, but I certainly see why you have headaches and pardon my giggles, I just can't help it!
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2008 :  21:57:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, and Dude, quit being lazy and write in your blog.

One of these days. I keep wanting to make it topical, then I ask myself... "what the hell do you think you know?" And I keep answering myself with a "not much, not enough, definitley not as much as I want to know".

So been thinking about just making it a general commentary thing. Dunno.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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ZeeKrey
New Member

United Arab Emirates
20 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2008 :  11:21:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send ZeeKrey an AOL message Send ZeeKrey a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey everyone,

I'm new here. I'm a muscular therapist from New Hampshire in school to learn biochemical research and premedical to take on medical school for Osteopathic medicine (Alternative/Holistic/manipulative medicine, Same education as MD)

Attending a massage therapy certificate with my associates in science degree while working in a life science lab with allopathic doctors has kept me pretty well balanced when it comes to skepticism.

New Hampshire has one of the more strict and inclusive massage therapy practice requirements so we learn about everyone from applied kinisiology and molecular level anatomy and physiology to Chinese medicine, energy work and chakras.

I have my own muscular therapy practice and I would like to mention a more manipulative musculoskelital approach to migraines treatment. On clients that have migrain and sinus problems I've found that Neuromuscular techniques work very well. Neuromuscular is a form of deep tissue that involves nervous circulation assistance and reseting nervous patterns muscles develop from prolonged stress such as with bending over, bending the neck, lifting children, lugging bags etc.

Your scalenes, sternocleidomastoids, and suboccipitals as well as many other neck muscles are believed to be a common cause of migraines. If you could find a massage therapist who practiced neuromuscular. I have facilitated the body of 3 clients in the past year to no longer have migraines. One of my clients has had migraines for 20 years. the others at least 4.

I'm not a doctor or anything like that, but if your problems come back and you dont like processed chemical intervention then it is worth a try. =]

Zee'Krey
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2008 :  12:48:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
ZeeKrey
New Hampshire has one of the more strict and inclusive massage therapy practice requirements so we learn about everyone from applied kinisiology and molecular level anatomy and physiology to Chinese medicine, energy work and chakras.


Would you care to comment on this article from the Skeptic Dictionary on applied kinesiology which concludes:
Applied kinesiology should not be confused with kinesiology proper, which is the scientific study of the principles of mechanics and anatomy in relation to human movement. However, many practitioners of applied kinesiology, refer to their quackery as kinesiology and themselves as kinesiologists.


My own experience with the practice has been from chiropractors, demonstrating my need for their art, or new agers selling things like charms to protect me from the evils of electro magnetic radiation given off by cell phones (or whatever kind of protection I am in need of) that they say weakens us and can even cause cancer.

What they do is have me hold out my arm, without the offending device on my person, and they attempt to pull my arm down using just a couple of fingers (there are several variations of the trick) and of course, they are easily repelled and fail on the first attempt. Next, in the case of the cell phone folks, they have me hold a cell phone and hold out my arm, ask me if I am ready (so as to not accuse them of cheating) and successfully pull my arm down without much effort. It's a very effective demonstration to show how a device (or whatever) can cause a musculature weakness in conjunction with an unhealthy practice. It's also an example of applied kinesiology.

The thing is, I know how it's done. And I have learned (with some practice so the trick can not be detected by my mark) to do it. I have turned it around on both chiropractors and device sellers.

I have, with two fingers, pulled down the arm of some very strong fellows, much bigger than me and with the confidence that there was no way that I could do it.

What they didn't know, until I succeeded and explained what I did to them, is that it's a trick. Nothing more. A very subtle, and hopefully imperceptible move on my part, and their arms fell like I was pulling on a strand of spaghetti.

Again, it's a tricků

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2008 :  12:49:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What the heck is "nervous circulation?"

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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ZeeKrey
New Member

United Arab Emirates
20 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2008 :  15:06:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send ZeeKrey an AOL message Send ZeeKrey a Private Message  Reply with Quote
haha I've never heard of the quackery kinesiology. Kinesiology around here, at least, is the science of anatomical movement. It is the study of how our muscles contract and relax depending on the activity or exercise being done, it is for evaluating musculoskelital issues a person may be having (such as how they are sitting at working, improper stance, or repetitive actions, lifting boxes. The applied kinesiology that we are taught is used to do things such as contact certain muscles so that their opposing muscles relax. In doing so you can work the area more thoroughly. I'm unsure what you read about.

I was once pursuing a degree in Kinesiology. It takes 4 years of school to be considered a "kinesiologist"

Nervous circulation is exactly what it sounds like. Remember the chemicals that run through your nerves? Without them there can be no polar conduit or electrical impulse.

Zee'Krey
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2008 :  15:26:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by ZeeKrey

Nervous circulation is exactly what it sounds like. Remember the chemicals that run through your nerves? Without them there can be no polar conduit or electrical impulse.
But nerves don't conduct those chemicals, they're simply bathed in them and modify their concentration. The electrical impulses are passed from one nerve cell to another like a message is passed from child to child in a game of "telephone," not like an artery carries blood.

Most Google hits (there are only 14!) for "polar conduit" are to some Star Trek fanfiction. Can you provide a reference for it as the term relates to nerve cells?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2008 :  18:18:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dave.....

Most Google hits (there are only 14!) for "polar conduit" are to some Star Trek fanfiction. Can you provide a reference for it as the term relates to nerve cells?
I found several, but nothing to shed much light on what Zeekrey may be talking about. One, in the Journal of Colloid and Interface Science Volume 296, Issue 2, 15 April 2006, Pages 690-699, seems to be deeply in the realm of inorganic chemistry and not applicable to the functioning of neural synapses.

If you want to wade through this you may find a few hints as to what this remarkable twelve year old may be referencing with the term "nervous circulation" - which term was a conundrum to me, also!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2008 :  18:22:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck

I found several, but nothing to shed much light on what Zeekrey may be talking about. One, in the Journal of Colloid and Interface Science Volume 296, Issue 2, 15 April 2006, Pages 690-699, seems to be deeply in the realm of inorganic chemistry and not applicable to the functioning of neural synapses.
I saw that as irrelevant, which is why I didn't mention it.
If you want to wade through this you may find a few hints as to what this remarkable twelve year old may be referencing with the term "nervous circulation" - which term was a conundrum to me, also!
Neither "circulation" nor "conduit" appear in the text. Besides which, I want to know what ZeeKrey offers as a reference.

(You also need to quit paying attention to the age in a person's profile.)

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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ZeeKrey
New Member

United Arab Emirates
20 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2008 :  18:23:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send ZeeKrey an AOL message Send ZeeKrey a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Incorrect actually. However such depth requires a biomolecular level Anatomy course so it is not common knowledge.

You are correct in that the nerves are bathed in chemicals but it is not so simple to create an impulse.
you are also correct in that the nerves do not work in the linear definition of a conduit such as a pipe. It consists of many neurons synapsing at origin and attachment, running great distances across the body.

We must look closer,

Axons are cells believe it or not and every cell has a liquidy functioning world of its own including mitochondrion and most of the other fun structures we all remember from building clay structures of animal cells.

The body's electricity is chemical unlike that of conductive wires in our human technology. The absorption and secretion of sodium and potassium (action potential) is why creates a polarity different which we see as "charge" and which creates an extremely small jolt of "electricity". Again this would not be possible without the passing of sodium and potassium in and out of the axon's intracellular fluid.

The propagation of that tiny jolt is the "nervous impulse" we hear so much about.

In even more depth, at the terminal synapse end of the neuron Calcium is absorbed into the neuron which signals neurotransmitters to be released. Neurotransmitters are another chemical which run through the neurons in order to be excreted into the bath of chemicals you were speaking of.

On the google bit. One thing that everyone probably does understand here is that the internet is not a good source when it comes to science. Medicine is skewed on the internet far to often and true detail in biological sciences is often not presented as it is too complex to understand from just text. I'm sure you can find it. My whole anatomy and phys book is on the net.

Can I post diagrams from that book here? Is that legal with citation? It would help everyone do understand certain things I say. I find it fascinating personally, if I ramble on about things please tell me to stop. Thanks all =]

Zee'Krey
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2008 :  18:36:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by ZeeKrey

Incorrect actually.
Actually not incorrect. You just said exactly what I was talking about, you just used more words (some incorrectly yourself).
On the google bit. One thing that everyone probably does understand here is that the internet is not a good source when it comes to science. Medicine is skewed on the internet far to often and true detail in biological sciences is often not presented as it is too complex to understand from just text. I'm sure you can find it. My whole anatomy and phys book is on the net.
Hard to find them without you offering up titles and editions, isn't it? And it's quite easy to make grand pronouncements on the accuracy of science or medicine on the Web without supporting such claims with evidence.

Of course I know that the vast majority of medicine on the Web is junk because it's being offered by quacks out to turn a buck. Good medical resources are few and far-between, but they tend not to use terms that they won't define, like "nervous circulation" or "polar conduit."
Can I post diagrams from that book here? Is that legal with citation? It would help everyone do understand certain things I say.
Sure, you can post limited diagrams with attribution, but I fail to see how that's going to help with my particular questions. Diagrams of nerve function are all over the place. I want to see references for the two terms I questioned.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2008 :  21:49:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Zeekrey.....

Are you a student and practicioner of kinesiology, or applied kinesiology? We are all just trying to find out which discipline you are referring to when you use the word "kinesiology" or "kinesiologist".
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2008 :  23:33:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dave.....

(You also need to quit paying attention to the age in a person's profile.)
Well, I'll be damned! Rationale?
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2008 :  06:33:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck

Rationale?
For one thing, we have no way of verifying anyone's birthday.

For another, a known bug in the birthday routine is that sometimes if a person enters no birthday at registration, the software assigns the registration day and month as their birthday, 13 years ago.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2008 :  09:27:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dave.....

For one thing, we have no way of verifying anyone's birthday.
Yeah, I guess that makes sense, given Jerome and his parade of trolls. You have a hard time verifying anyone's existence unless they stick with the same base computer!
For another, a known bug in the birthday routine is that sometimes if a person enters no birthday at registration, the software assigns the registration day and month as their birthday, 13 years ago.
That is new information for me, and I thank you for it - explains some of the apparent enfant prècoce visiting this site! Gravyware! You encounter it at every turn!
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